| Jenni O. |
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| #1 |
Gus has developed a new dangerous bad habit. When we are in a group and the other horses get "trotty" or we lope, he decides he needs to barrel to the front of the group, and any holding back results in bucking/kicking. So dangerous for me, and especially other horses and riders. I don't know if he wants to race or hates the thought of being left behind or what, but I do know he is frustrated with being held back and that is how he reacts. He rode fine in a group earlier this year, several times, and is fine alone or when he is with one other horse.
It's kind of a new bad habit, most likely brought on by me not doing as much groundwork and/or riding lately. Just looking for any ideas/opinions. I may have to find someone who has time and the place to do the work he needs, on a regular basis.
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| Amy |
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| #2 |
I leased a horse one year that would bolt on the trail. One time we decided to make her keep on bolting, lol! Funny when it wasn't her idea how fast she gave up the habit. Being older now I think I would try circles, circles, and more circles. Keep Gus giving and working so he doesn't have time to think about bolting. When your not doing circles try any number of exercises to keep him busy. Sooner or later he's going to appreciate a nice quiet relaxed non working ride. Maybe make a point to ride more. I know, easier said then done these days. |
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| Jenni O. |
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| #3 |
I took advantage of leaving work early today and went on a quick hour ride. Considering it was windy and we were on a straight boring trail, he did fine. We trotted a lot, and on the way home when he wanted to trot and I didn't, we did circles. He's basically fine alone. But he loses his mind when the other horses go. Next time I ride in a group I will try being in front if we are going to lope and see how he is then. It's hard to do circles on narrow woodsy trails with people behind, but I'll have to try.
I should mention that I ride in a regular jointed snaffle, and it works fine when we are alone or with another horse. But yesterday when he wanted to go had all I could do to slow him down. Maybe a different bit when I ride in a larger group? But then what one, and will it do any good or will it make him fight me more?
Ah, the joys of horses.
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| Wendy W - WI |
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| #4 |
Jenni, how old is Gus? |
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| Amy |
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| #5 |
If you go to a different bit you just might tick him off and he could just develop a different issue. Can you ask him to do other stuff like the leap frog thing where the group constantly rotates positions, leader to the end of the line and keep rotating positions in the group. Or go away from the group when you are first or last and them come back. Make him work if he's up front so he wants to not be there. Don't feel alone. My horse was the same way only she'd start prancing sideways and then toss in a 180. We got past it, you will too. |
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| Jenni O. |
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| #6 |
Ha, everyone asks that. He's 13, old enough to know better. Acts more like a 4 yr old. He's 3/4 Arab and a stereotypical Arab. Although has his mellow days too. I suspect his previous owner didn't do much trail riding. I know he took him to group training classes, but I heard the owner mostly ran Gus around and didn't listen. Good to know now.
Today he was fine, for what I expect of him. It was windy and he was looking around a lot as always. Leaves blew by and he didn't do much, but he noticed. He gawked at logs and downed trees on the trail and eyeballed them a little as we rode by. We trotted quite a bit and he did fine. On the way home he wanted to go, but was easy enough to hold back. I'd do a circle or two and he'd be fine for awhile. When he gets ridden a little more regularly he is even better of course.
The problem is in a group the last few times he gets pretty explosive when he can't race to the front. And we were on a narrow wooded trail, and there was a section where there were two little "hills" a few feet high and fairly close, so the horses needed to pay attention to what they were doing. But we sort of blew over the tops of the hills I think, in a bucking/kicking fashion. Quite lovely. All bc a couple horses were getting zippy and trotted a little.
So what do I do to not get killed or hurt someone else while I deal with this? If I go to the back and let people lope it's way too difficult to hold him at a lope if he is bucking and fighting the bit. I can't just alway be in front. He lopes fine alone or even with one other horse (so far). I'm sure he was never raced, bc he's only had the one owner before me. This was my 3rd summer with him, my husbad rode him the first two and then gave up this year.
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| westiemom |
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| #7 |
Well, I'm gonna put this out there and will have people disagreeing with me, but in my opionion, once you said "3/4 Arab"...well, there it is. I'm on my second Arab who has that problem.Wants to go, go, go. I am currently working through the same issues with Silhouette. She was doing better after I made her do countless circles and backing, could finally ride with a small group and behave. Then I took her to Caroline and we had to start all over again. Of course it was a huge ride and was all new to her so I am giving her the benefit of the doubt on that one. She is going to be taken out again this coming weekend, and there will be about 8-10 of us so we'll see how she does. The last two rides I have taken Tea Gee because it is so nice to ride a good ole' 23 year old quarter horse who behaves and is so steady and dependable. With Silly I know its a 'working' ride but I also know she will never get over it if I don't keep working with her. The trouble is, is its MY
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| BOP Mom |
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| #8 |
I know where you're coming from Westie, but it's not just arabs. I have a TB who is the exact same way! He absolutely hates to be "left behind" and will try to charge to the front if he can. It's just one of those things you have to work on and work on and then work some more. What I've always thought is that when a horse goes out alone or with one other horse, they only need to be concerned about themselves. When there are several horses, the herd mentality takes over and you are having to work against and through instincts. All those horses are trotting/running, there must be something after us!! Don't know if this is the case, but it always made sense to me. Sometimes it helps to "see it" from their veiwpoint and then work through it from there. I've never been a fan of changing bits because it doesn't always address the real problem and can create new ones. But that's just me....
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| Karen F |
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| #9 |
I have an Arab mare who is a go, go, go type of horse. What I usually do is lounge her for a little bit both ways. We do this everytime before I ride. It's kind of her "ok we're getting down to work" time. It usually centers her, then she's good. You could try that. No guarantee its going to work though. Each horse, like each person, is different. |
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| westiemom |
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| #10 |
tee hee hee, looks like I accidently posted before I finished and I forgot what else I was going to say so disregard the last sentence.  Good luck, I'll be thinking about you as I'm doing my circles down the trail this weekend. 
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| Jenni O. |
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| #11 |
I know, but people ride Arabs in endurance rides with mobs of other horses and they all want to really go, but they don't necessarily do the bucking thing to get their way. I suppose my best bet is to ride with a few people who can work with me on this, and expect that he'll be a brat in a group if he hasn't had practice for awhile. And maybe experiment with different bits.
I really don't mind the "go go" attitude, and he's not bad until the others start up. It's the bucking/kicking. He was fine walking along until the other horses started that annoying trot then walk, trot then walk crap that drives me nuts. You know, where they trot a few strides, walk, trot a few again, walk. So annoying. I think on smaller rides people would work with me on the leapfrog thing, although I don't ride with them on a really regular basis. But it might help his mindset when we do. His ADD mind would be kept busy that way.
I prefer riding alone or with one or two people, but am part of a riding club and like going with them to places I'd be afraid of getting lost at. But the more I ride alone the more I like it. Horse listens to ME, I can go my pace, go as long or as short as I want (until the lost factor comes into play).
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| westiemom |
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| #12 |
The bucking/kicking IS a dangerous habit, and yes, you really do need to get to the bottom of that one. I feel your frustration, wish I had the answer on that one for you. I think you should ride with someone who can really help you out with it. When I first got Silhouette (she is 16) she had a terrible habit of kicking. She'd kick at the farrier, at riding time when I'd approach her with the saddle or blanket, and at other horses on the trail. I rode with another girl and a guy who is a trainer and he told me to really get after her when she'd kick. I'd slap her, hard, on the neck and yell at her to knock it off. Then we'd immediately turn circles, then ride right next to one of them again. When she'd flatten her ears I'd do it again. Pretty soon (all during that one ride), with Richs help, we were all riding side by side, close, and she was just fine. And still is. Rich would reach over and rub her ears and talk to her, and let her know it wasn't so bad riding next to someone else. We kept switching places. Same thing with approaching with the blanket and saddle, all I had to do was yell at her to knock it off and she got over it. One thing she has never done though is buck but I know my trainer friend says that when a horse bucks people just don't get after it enough to let it know that it is not acceptable behaviour. I am not talking about beating a horse, I am talking about stern correction they will understand. Sometimes it is just bad behaviour they were allowed to get away with in the past and they need to know you are not going to allow it. Your answer to this one may include some help from a trainer or very knowledgable person who can ride with you. Again, good luck!
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| Karen-MHWF |
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| #13 |
I just want to offer my support to you Jenni. My horse Josh did the same thing for a while. He absolutely couldn't stand being in the back of the group, and a time or two he bucked and a time or two he attempted to when I wouldn't let him race ahead. What I did for this was only ride in groups of people who understood that I needed to work with my horse and I rode in various spots in the group. I also did more ground work. I did not change up bits...that is sound advice on not changing up bits, as a harsher bit isn't going to fix the problem, it would probably get you dumped off. I think that sometimes a horse doesn't like being in the back because they are afraid that they will either get left behind or attacked by those bears and other things that linger towards the back of the group. Funny story...riding out west one time we passed some buffalo, we were in the back of the group and Josh seriously thought those buffalo would eat him. That was the worst 2 miles of a ride I have ever logged in my life. I did not get bucked off, but he worked me over, and I had to make him stay back there. As Josh gained more and more experience with riding in the group in different spots in the line-up down the trail, he has gotten completely over that. He is half Arab also. Now my quarter horse Gus....he was much worse about that kind of thing and much more of a handful than Josh ever has been and not nearly as easy to work through the issue, but in doing the same type of thing, practice, he worked it out too. I think that they learn they can't get away with that punky stuff, and also they learn that nothing bad will happen to them in being in the back...the more you work with them, the more they trust you and respect you.
Best of luck Jenni, I'm sure you'll work through this and let us know how it goes.
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| Kimberly |
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| #14 |
I am currently dealing with almost the exact same thing with my grade quarter horse Diesel. He has decided that his name should be Seabiscuit and if another horse gets ahead of him it is time to bolt. He bucked me off at a full run for the very first, and hopefully last, time almost a month ago. I have not been able to ride him since as I was hurt a bit worse then I had hoped. We will be working on this until we get it out of him. This is a very dangerous habit and I am hoping we get to the bottom of it as quickly and safley as possible. |
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| doreen |
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| #15 |
I have had arabs that have had this problem, and arabs that could care less about horses in front of them...smile...go figure!
I agree with many of the suggestions, and especially what Karen said. Right now, ride with people who understand you may need to work with your horse. Another suggestion is to find a "pocket" within the large group of horses, where you can ride your own ride. This is a technique used by many endurance/competitive trail people to introduce their young/inexperienced horses to the sport. Let some riders get ahead, some riders get behind, and ride in the middle - alone, with one other, with a couple...whatever works for you on that day, for that ride. Then your horse will have a "herd" but will also be able to get used to horses being in front and behind, as well as passing.
Keep in mind that while you may not be able to circle your horse on a narrow, wooded trail...you can still make him work which is the point. Go off the trail, over logs/around trees, make serpentines through the brush...be inventive! there are many natural obstacles out there that can help you keep your horse's mind focused on you.
Another thing that I did that seemed to help my horses, was to go to a very busy trail, find an intersection and stand there. Dont go anywhere, just stand there, and watch horses come and go, come and go, come and go. My mare with this problem soon realized that watching the horses was way more fun than fretting.
Good luck!
doreen
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| Jenni O. |
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| #16 |
Thanks for the help, everyone. He is not kicky any other time. It's just his way of dealing with his frustration at not being able to go. Most people in the group would be fine working with me. Plan on going with some people this weekend, so I'll see how he does in various spots in the group. I do know even at a walk he prefers being towards the front, although if the group gets spread out and/or he gets energy burnt off he is less picky about that. There aren't any reliably busy trails close around here to take him on, otherwise I would go alone more where I knew we'd run into other horses. |
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| Eric B. |
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| #17 |
I agree with Karen about the bit. A harsher bit is not the answer for sure. I think you should work on the bucking aspect first. Work on his neck flextion to each side then add some heel pressure to have him move his hindquarters over on command. He can not buck if he is moving his back end. You can work on this on the ground first with a lead rope. If you want to try this and have some questions reply back and I can get into more detail.
Good luck with this I know it can be frustrating. I would also ask your riding companions to let you know when they are going to steed up, so you can prepare to work him before he is already pointed forward and on his way.
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| Jenni O. |
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| #18 |
Thanks, Eric. I wasn't thrilled with the different bit idea. And he wasn't like this earlier this year. He'd want to go, but didn't resort to the kicking. And he can do it while moving forward somewhat, it becomes more a kick out than a vertical buck. |
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| Brenda |
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| #19 |
You are describing my horse. As a result, I ride alone or with one or two other people and he usually leads. If I'm in a group and someone starts trotting spontaneously or lets their horse run up a hill, it's just too unpleasant for me and for him.
You might try with a small group, agreeing to just walk, or make sure people ask before they trot if everyone else is up for it, then try to keep your horse behind the leader and make sure the horses behind you don't crowd you. Everyone should keep their 8' interval, that's just trail etiquette. I think the crowding and jostling is what bothers my guy the most besides seeing horses taking off up a hill in front of him.
When he's leading, he does better.
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| Jenni O. |
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| #20 |
Well, if nothing else this post has taught me that I am not alone, and that getting a different horse might not work bc that one could end up with the same habit or worse. It seems to be a common bad habit.
People in the group do let us know when they will lope, but he was getting wound up that day prior to this bc the other horses started that annoying walk/trot/walk/trot thing that drives me mad. He was fine earlier when we were walking, and was fine while we were stopped talking to another rider. Although earlier when that guy passed us at a trot he wanted to go, but was easy enough to control.
I guess all these less than perfect horses make us better riders.
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| Brenda |
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| #21 |
Stop riding with the people who trot/walk/trot/walk without notice. I'd try getting him used to trotting with just one other horse, first in the lead, then behind. My guy will do this with one or two others (sometimes) without his peabrain exploding.
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| Amy |
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| #22 |
Jenni~ In your last post you said YOU got annoyed with the walk/trot/walk thing. You know I thought my horse was traffic shy when I got her 10 years ago. One day this little dim little bulb went off in my head and I dropped the reins when a car went by. Nothing happened. No nervous dancing, no horsey jitters, nothing. Ha! Turns out I was traffic shy. Do you think your horse is reading you and picking up that YOU don't like the W/T/W thing?
Read this again~
bc the other horses started that annoying walk/trot/walk/trot thing that drives me mad. He was fine earlier when we were walking, and was fine while we were stopped talking to another rider.
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| Karen-MHWF |
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| #23 |
It's funny you mention that Amy. I rode with someone a few times and I thought that Josh couldn't stand that horse, he always acted up when they came up behind us. Took me quite a while to figure this out, but it was the anxiety I was feeling when they came up behind us that Josh was feeding off of. Horses surely read our heartbeats and anxieties very well. |
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| Amy |
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| #24 |
Yes they sure do. There are days when I bet they stand there and wonder if we humans aren't all nuts. |
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| Jenni O |
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| #25 |
Amy, yeah I thought of that. That could be part of it. That's happened before though and I've been annoyed and we didn't have the explosive situation, but you never know. I'm sure it didn't help. Trotting doesn't seem to be as much of an issue as loping, but I don't want it to progress to that either. I have to say that many of the other horses were a little more wound than usual, none anywhere near as bad as Gus, but you could tell it was a crisp fall day. There were probably several factors that came into play.
The time before when he did it was a little different. My husband was on him (bc Gus had been so good all summer for me) and he was a pain from the beginning, and then I finally had to get on him and do circles for awhile, and then we rode more up front and he was fine. That day I don't even think loping set him off, he was frustrated from the beginning. So weird, bc I didn't have these issues this summer. It seems that he really dislikes being in the back now.
And he does like to be in front when it's just him and Cloudy. Great, I have a born leader. Until we get to a bridge or man-eating log, or a sign, or we hear a chainsaw up ahead.
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