| Paula B |
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| #1 |
Has anyone ever had this problem? Say I had to ask him to move his hind end over...he 95% will lash out and kick (only while he's eating) He will literally stop eating to swing his hind end out and buck. Anyone have suggestions? I have worked with moving him totally away and letting me get to his grain and then letting him come eat and moving away and he excepts that, but I would at this point not be safe to clean his stall in the AM when he's eating... Some reasons I think may cause this to be more of a problem...I know I haven't shared much with you guys about him but this is my 6 month old foal..he is gelded....He had emergency surgery on his leg about 2 - 2 1/2 months ago and was on stall rest...then he got gelded and got an infection and the meds from that caused it to heal too fast and it burst on its own on one side that they couldn't reopen..and then he got weaned at 5 1/2 months because he's very independent and so on...but I feel bad because he doesn't have a buddy to rough house with and you know they buck and kick and feed time and he doesn't have anyone to do anything with...i know that's not an excuse for it but I'm just trying to give you some backround on him... I did try to bring my cousins older gelding to be his buddy but that didn't work out at all....the gelding wanted to just beat him up and kick him....I'm hoping in two weeks to try putting him back with the mare and I hope they are 100% weaned so he doesn't try drinking again and can have someone to hang out with....he is also out basically 24/7 in my round pen unless the weather is cold windy and rainy since he doesn't have a shelter in there.....any thought are welcome  Ps- Its also scary because he's already 13 hh and almost 500 pounds and I want to correct this ASAP! |
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| doreen |
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| #2 |
My mare and my filly both can make attempts at feeding time to be dominant by shaking their heads, pinning their ears, and acting nasty. They are required to back up and stand still before I enter the stall or give them their feed buckets. My horses are not allowed to turn away from me or present hind ends in their stalls...eyes and ears must be on me. If a horse tried to kick or buck at me in a stall, I would bring a crop down on that rump in a heartbeat.
My gut reaction is this weanling has no respect for you. I would get a be nice halter (or something of that sort) and start some basic groundwork immediately. Lead him, make him stop/back/move whereever you want. Make him stand still. Make him stand tied.
If he does not know any of these things, and you do not feel confident enough at this point to start with him, I highly suggest sending him to a trainer now. He is only going to get bigger, and more aggressive if he does not learn to respect humans in general, and you in particular.
If he does know most of these things, I would put him in his halter and handle him before you allow him to eat. Show him exactly what you expect..ie stand still, respectful, no pushing, no fretting. When he does what you want, release him and give him permission to eat. Let him know that it is up to YOU if and when he eats. If he wont behave, no feed.
It is always difficult when a foal has been sick or injured, and training has to be put off. I sympathize with your situation, but do feel you need to get the upper hand as soon as possible with your youngster.
doreen
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| Amy |
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| #3 |
Been there. My mares filly kick at me several times while feeding and the time she connected was directly over my knee cap. Had she been any lower my knee cap would have been shattered. No excuses, this is a very dangerous behavior. Call me crazy but what I did was prepare myself mentally for her to attempt to kick and when she did, I literally attacked her from the rear and spent about 5 seconds pounding on her butt for all I was worth. Do what any herd leader would do. Put a stop to it. She needs to know right now she can not do that ever. What if a child were to walk behind her. It's like training a dog to not go in the road. They get no second chance at tangleing with a tire. Serious business and it needs to be addressed as such. I knew it worked for me when I saw that filly turn her butt as the habit it had become and then suddenly she must have remembered and corrected herself anmd that was the lastr time I ever saw her turn her butt. For what it's worth it was after she was weaned and reunited with mom. Good luck. It was scarey and maybe not the smartest thing to do but it had to stop immediately. It did before me or someone got seriously hurt. BTW it's not aggressive eating it's poor manners. All I did was think what an alpha mare would do. The same filly had no respect for mom either. |
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| Donna LE |
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| #4 |
Now that the injury is healed, and you know this is not an injury related behavior, I would do some serious (daily) handling. Putting a halter on and off, rubbing her on the areas that she accepts, then go a little farther. Use finger pressures on her sides to make her move away from you, then praise when she gets it with a release and rub. Eventually you will gain her trust and will be able to rub her all over. This may take time, so do not rush this. Once she trusts you, the respect will follow. Then work up to leading, backing, picking up her feet, loading. All horses kick, some only at their pasture mates. She has to learn that it is not acceptable to kick at you. And I agree with you about her size, she is only going to get bigger. The first 2 1/2 to 3 years is all about gaining respect on the ground. Good luck, and don't give up on her, you will have a reward in about 2 1/2 years if you stay focused and committed. |
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| Eric B. |
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| #5 |
My suggestion would be to get A LOT of ground work. It will take some of your time and commitment, but the problem is he is only going to get bigger and more pushy.
If you have a round pen or access to one that will make this a little easier. Lunge him till you think is going to have a heart attack, then start making him turn towards you when he turns or stops. If you do not lunge him in a round pen, make sure your lead line is long enough. It is not good to lunge a young horse in a tight circle. Work his hindquarters and basically let him know who the herd leader is. Make him back away from you when you ask. After all of this make sure you still pet on him, but you dictate when the he comes into your space.
We have had a few issues with catching or horses and a little ear pinning. This seemed to work really well. You have to work him hard. You will be surprised how quickly he will start showing respect. Good luck.
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| Eric B. |
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| #6 |
I just reread your post and I am confused on the age of your colt. Is he 6 months old or a year old? If he is younger than a year, then don't work him till he passes out. He is still pretty young. If he is over a year, you can work him a little harder to get his attention. Once he is 2 the ground work is pretty much wide open. Also, work on his neck flextion to each side.
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| Brenda |
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| #7 |
Don't try to clean his stall while he's eating. Let him eat in peace, as long as he was respectful when you put the feed down and left.
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| paula |
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| #8 |
He is 6 months old....... He already leads, ties backs on command, has his feet trimmed, picked, he gets groomed..all over....he walks over tarps...goes for walks all over.... I keep him in the round pen and get in there when he acts like that and send him off and getting him working and act as a dominat horse would saying "you can act nice and wait til your wanted to come over here"....when we got all the rain he was in the stall and I asked him to move over and he let loose I grabbed my plastic pitch fork and sent him running backwards..(I didn't hit him with it) and everytime he thought he HAD the right to move I would put it all the way back behind my head and slam it to the ground and I know my body stance and look that he knew I meant buisness...I think it's going to take a lot of that...And it is ONLY with FOOD! He does stuff and yeah he's a baby so he's still needing reminders once in a while to not head rub or mind his own space but it's just the food issue. I know this is going to sound mean but his mama is the boss and when he goes in with her he'll get a lesson in minding his own(When she was preggo she became the boss and likes her own space now)(I no longer own my QRT horse gelding..my parents friends bought him for a forever home)Thanks for all your replys everyone I'm going to keeps that all in my thoughts as I continue to work with him! Amy, the thing I worry about is him being more agressive and likely to strike back if I hit his hind end when he does it?!?! |
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| paula |
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| #9 |
Brenda~ I don't feed him in the stall...I'm was just saying I would never trust being in the stall at the same time persay cleaning it while he was eating |
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| Laurie L. |
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| #10 |
A foal shouldn't be lunged much at all, especially in a round pen. It's too small and they have to circle too tightly. Ground work is enough at his age.
Do you hand feed him any treats? if so, don't.
Can you halter him, have his food outside the round pen, and reach through and put the food IN with him? If you have him haltered, you have control of his head and if he's as good with basics as you are saying (good job there!), he won't be able to get his rear end toward you. You can just keep it simple. It might be helpful to have someone help you, but have him haltered, the feed comes in, and he stands nicely until you allow him to eat. If you're nervous about letting him loose in there, just stand with him and let him eat, don't pet him or anything, just keep him haltered. If he starts getting rammy with the feed, back him off and have your partner remove the feed and start over.
Just a suggestion that would be pretty safe all the way around.
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| Brenda |
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| #11 |
Sorry, that wasn't clear to me I guess. If you're feeding him outside and he's food aggressive with YOU (not just other horses), I would take a whip out with me and drive him off his food. That's what a dominant horse would do and he needs to see you as dominant. Wait for a little bit then turn and walk away and let him have it if he's good.
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| Amy |
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| #12 |
Paula, he's a youngster. He's going to push his boundries. If you watch herd dynamics the herd leader tells the rest what to do and those that don't listen get told rather sternly this is what they will do. That is what I played off of. I didn't do the 20 small corrections, just one big one. Yep I was scared too. And yep I could have been kicked again. I guess it was a chance I was willing to take. Might not be everyone's decision. Wasn't it Lyons that said you have a 5 second window to make them think your going to kill them and then stop and resume what you were doing, no emotion involved. And no I don't advocate horse beating but when it's a safety issue I take it very seriously. BTW the filly I worked through this was the only horse I regretted selling. She turned out to be a wonderful quiet calm lazy mare. She just went through the terrible two's at 6 months old  |
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| BOP Mom |
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| #13 |
John Lyons advocates the 3 second rule and generally for something extremely serious like biting - though he suggests that if the training is done properly, it should never escalate to biting. Not sure if he recommends the 3 second, "kill them" rule for something like this situation.
Lots of good advice here and as everyone pointed out, lots of ground work and gaining the horses respect. He's a kid and needs to learn his boundaries and acceptable behavior...
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| Tanya |
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| #14 |
I purchased a 7 yr old gelding, wonderful boy-and big. Brought him home to find he had food aggression issues. He would charge ears pinned and teeth barred, threaten to kick, ect. He ment business and was going to kill someone. This could happen anytime he was eating- hay pasture or grain. Funny thing, he rode like a dream and showed no respect issues provided he was not actively eating.
Be careful!!!
I tied him short before I even started dishing out dinner. Fed the other horses then fed him through the fence holding his grain pan, talking quietly. First couple times he tried to take a bite of me so I yelled at him waited for him to quiet and offered him his feed pan again. Then I went to holding him short standing at his shoulder and feeding him his dinner, then walking him to the hay and allowing him to eat. Finally, petting him while he ate tied (of course ready to get out of the way/correct if he tried anything). Took a couple of weeks but it got worked out. I do need to keep an eye on him when he is eating grain and strangers come around. I have had him for about 4 years and I still ask him to move his hindquarters and other little stuff just to make sure we are still on the same page at dinner time.
You need to start lots of groundwork. I would especially work on the "two eyes" excercises. If you do not know a lot about how to proceed get professional help.
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| Amy | |
| Amy |
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| #16 |
Sorry I got confused. The 5 second rule is when you drop food on the floor! LOL!!!! |
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| BOP Mom |
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| #17 |
Amy, thanks for the refresh - it's been a while since I've read JL's stuff. Yup, "kill them" doesn't necessarily mean beating them, just make them think they are a breath away from dying. And, he does suggest it for kicking too.
We use the 5 second rule a lot at our house! 
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